Dan Beresh: [00:00:00] Hey there. Welcome back to the Fide Podcast. I'm Dan Beresh, founder of Fide, and I have with me Sanjay, and he is the head of enterprise marketing at SAP, uh, based in Delhi. And Sanjay, I'm so excited to have you here because we've chatted so much in our, uh, conversations up, up to this recording just around what enterprise marketing looks like, how it's changing, how complex it is, and really how to do it right, which I think is a pretty challenging, pretty challenging thing to do.

Sanjay Chaudhary: Thank you, Daniel.  

Dan Beresh: It's so, so good to have you here, Sanjay. You know, I'm, I'm really curious because you've had such an interesting career, and I'd, I'd like to start there if, if you're comfortable with that. I think, you know, just looking at the- Mm-hmm ... things you've done, coming to your current role in marketing, I mean, you know, you're a chemistry graduate, uh, you've worked in corporate communications, public affairs, sales programs, and now marketing.

So I'm just curious, what is this... Tell me about this, this background you've had. You've, you've, you've gone through so many things. How, how does that [00:01:00] make you the marketer you are now?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Yeah, I think I have a very unconventional, uh, background. I never started to be a marketer. In fact, um, a lot of things are coincidence and, um, you know, I've, uh, studied science, as you said.

Then I moved on to do corporate communications. Uh, then, uh, did very closely work on sales programs, sales strategy, managing sales operations also at Oracle, then eventually getting into marketing, and within marketing also I have, uh, done account-based marketing. I've done marketing for industries, product marketing, and, uh, you know, I've had a variety of experience.

I feel so blessed that I have, uh, gotten an opportunity to work with big tech companies, also the startups and Indian multinationals. So I think, uh, with this, uh, the advantage that I have is, uh, as I said, it's a blessing that I, I, I can break [00:02:00] silos. I understand when sales is, uh, you know, have certain requests or demands, where are they coming from?

I understand, uh, that how to articulate, craft clear messaging thanks to my corporate communications background. And I know how the sales needle move, right? And, um, how it's not only just one function that can create an impact. It's the whole ecosystem that has to come together. And, uh, having done those large programs for sales, I truly understand, uh, the need for sales and marketing to come together and make a, that big impact.

So I would say I think it's a blessing, um, that I have a very unconventional background and really worked in my favor.  

Dan Beresh: Well, sales and marketing are such, I wanna say sometimes rivals. They should be friends, right? And ultimately we're trying to achieve the same thing in the company. [00:03:00] But it doesn't always feel that way.

And I'm so curious, especially when it comes to big organizations with big sales teams, big marketing teams, uh, what would be your perspective and advice that you would have for folks who are, you know, struggling to align on how do we drive revenue?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Well, um, because I've sat on both side of the table, I was running sales strategy, sales programs, working very closely with the strategic account directors at Oracle and, um, now with marketing.

So I truly understand both the worlds. And, um, you know, sometimes, um, you know, I see some of the marketers, the starting point or point of the conversation is, um, a list of activities, right? From how many leads are being generated or how many roundtables are being planned, events are being planned. [00:04:00] That's not what sales is looking for.

Sales is laser-focused on outcomes. They are completely, um, driven by what can create revenue, right? Um, you know, I think, um- If we have to be on the same side of the table as sales and, uh, earn that respect, perhaps marketers have to start speaking the sales language. And when you, um, work backward, it's not very difficult, to be honest.

You know, all that we do as marketer is eventually aimed at generating revenue for the organization. It's just that flip the conversation. Instead of, uh, you know, listing out, uh, the engagement, talk, uh, about how the outcomes, uh, you know, eventual outcomes that you're looking for and what is the approach that you will take.

And to take that approach, what are the [00:05:00] initiatives and program that, uh, would be driven by you, right? So it's, it's a, a, you know, slight shift in the mindset, um, um, talking, understanding more, uh, of the context, understanding of the environment, and then presenting your case which how it directly links to, uh, these, uh, the sales objectives.

Dan Beresh: And I think that so often marketers live in this box, to your point, of metrics and unfortunately sometimes vanity metrics. "Hey, I, I put out this video and it got a ton of views." And everyone in sales is sitting there thinking, "Yeah, but we have to make money. Like, that's the pur-purpose of the company." And marketer's saying, "Yeah, but I got 10,000 views on this, this video."

And the salesperson's saying, "Yeah, but which one of those people is now talking to me and interested in making a sale?" So I think we have to bridge that gap, right? And the experience you have, I imagine, gives you huge advantage to be someone within SAP that can be that, [00:06:00] that person who, who bridges the gap and starts to say, "How do we, how do we work together," right?

Sanjay Chaudhary: Yeah, I think, um, I believe that, uh, you know, people do business with people, and people they trust. If you look at in terms of, uh, the what makes sales happen is three Rs, which is relationship, reputation, and which generates revenue, right? And often, um, I have seen that, uh, you know, because the KPIs are sometimes so different and everyone is so laser focused on their own KPIs without understanding, uh, the larger picture, that you miss the point.

You, uh, you know, you're trying to, uh, to, you know, build a pipeline, and to build pipeline, uh, uh, to generate revenue. Uh, and in the process you are building relationship. Uh, but you're keeping the reputation completely out. I believe the first starting point is [00:07:00] getting the seat on the table by building the rep- building the right reputation.

And once, uh, you have built the reputation, the relationships are built, and revenue is pulled in the process. You can't lead with the objective of pipeline and just pure, uh, revenue. You have to have, uh, you know, uh, that credibility, uh, so that you can have, uh, you know, a trusted, uh, uh, you know, environment where you can actually make an impact.

Dan Beresh: For sure. And, and brand does so much work in that realm. So it's an interesting thing. I kind of hear you saying in one way marketers need to do more to understand salespeople a little bit better and speak their language. But equally, salespeople need to understand that they are really standing on the shoulders of giants, and, and that without the base layer of reputation that's been built through the marketing, through the branding, through all of the activities that those folks do- You'd go into a sales conversation, the [00:08:00] person would say, "Who are you and why, why am I even here?"

Or there wouldn't even be a conversation.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: I believe, um, if the salesperson has got into a sales call and he has to end up educating the customer, marketing has already failed. Hmm. Right? So I think, um- That's  

Dan Beresh: so insightful, yeah, yeah.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: So, you know, uh, traditionally if you see marketing, um, was to generate leads and pass it on to customer- uh, to, to mar- salespeople, and sales was supposed to educate the customer, move them throughout the sales cycle.

But I think upon their, you know that, you know, buying cycles, buying process is completely changing now, especially in B2B and individual decision. There is a whole committee which gets, gets involved, and there are influencers, there are ratifiers, there are decision makers, there are users. So all sets of people come together to take that final [00:09:00] decision on buying a B2B solution, right?

And, uh, often most of the-- because the easy access to information, and especially when we are moving from the search economy to ask economy, uh, the information is available on everyone's fingertip, and recommendations are being made by, uh, systems now, right? So by the time a salesperson is called, the opinions have already been formed, and those opinions are formed on what they see out there in the market.

Uh, so, so it's very, very critical for marketers to do their job of making sure even before the customer reaches out to you, uh, you have built some form of reputation about your organization, right? And, you know, then move forward from there.  

Dan Beresh: It's so challenging though, right? Because it's easy for us to sit here and [00:10:00] say, "Build a, a reputation for your organization," and yet, I mean, it, you know, that's a massive undertaking.

And w- to your point, B2B marketing and selling has changed, right? And we have these buying committees with so many different types of people on them, each of whom has a different thing that they consider valuable. So how do you think about how to address this challenge of so many different people that you need to, to reach, so many different people who you need to build trust with, and so many people that you need to- get on side before that salesperson even gets in the room?

Sanjay Chaudhary: I think, um, if you look at, uh, you know, uh, unlike B2C buying, which can be, um, um, impulse purchase, B2B buying is a complex process. Besides having multiple people involved in the, uh, buying process, there are, uh, career at [00:11:00] stake. One wrong decision can make, and one right decision m- can make or break careers, right?

So, so, uh, I-- what is marketing, uh, role is how they can help reduce the friction in the buying process Create that reliability, give them enough reasons that the outcome that they are looking for will be ach- uh, achieved. How the product is being adopted by others. Let me give you some examples, right? So in terms of how marketing can actually not just service, but shape the demand.

Um, we... I conducted a very interesting exercise, which is called mystery shopping, and we were trying to get into, when I was with Oracle, trying to get into large, uh, banking accounts, especially in the front office space. Oracle had been very, um, has been very tr- uh, traditionally had been [00:12:00] very strong in the back office space.

So cr- to create that, uh, to shape that demand and create that, uh, you know, interest, we, uh, started with a voice of customer mystery, uh, shopping. We went out to, uh, you know, 5,000 customers across, uh, you know, 15 cities in the, in the country and- Wow ... asked them about their, uh, you know, um, their experience with their primary financial institution, whether it was in, uh, through physical channels or digital channels.

And then we did a complete benchmarking report, uh, and rated in terms of how the each bank fare versus their competition, right?  

Dan Beresh: Hmm.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Um, so this information, this asset which was created of, uh, of immense value, and we used JD Power. JD Power is very well known in the automobile industry, but very few [00:13:00] people know that they are very strong, robust, um, uh, banking, uh, arm also.

Dan Beresh: I had no idea. I've only ever seen them in automotive. You see them in the car commercials, right? That's the, the JD Power. That's the- Correct.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Correct. But I think what they are strong is, uh, creating that voice of customer study-  

Dan Beresh: Hmm ...  

Sanjay Chaudhary: and that mystery shopping that how it all started. Uh, the whole idea started with why we chose them, uh, because of the expertise in voice of customer studies.

So, uh, you know, I... Then what we created was a complete benchmarking report. Uh, then we went to the large banks and told them, "This is how you rate, uh, you know, versus your competition." Doors really opened for us and, uh- Hmm ... you know, we have had, uh, conversation with the retail banking heads. We have had conversation with the chief operating officers.

You know, it was, uh, it was completely getting into the boardroom with, with one strong asset. But we didn't stop at that. You know, um, A, the, um, how we have to make [00:14:00] sure that we- everyone is speaking the same language. The asset which was created by marketing, we leveraged that through multiple channels in terms of digital press activities or a number of that sales team were equipped to leverage that information in the conversation.

And also, besides pointing out what's wrong, that's one part of the story. The other part of the story is coming with diagnostics of if this is broken, how it can be fixed. And by the way, we have some solutions to cover that. You know, you can of course go- Of course ... and check the market, but this is what we have to offer.

Dan Beresh: Yeah. Yeah.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: So that was very credible way of engaging, yeah.  

Dan Beresh: One of the things I love that you're saying without saying it is how much runway you got out of that single investment with J.D. Power as well. That's something that we see, and I'm not even talking SMB. Like, we work with multinational enterprise companies who I see investing a huge amount of money in a single effort and then [00:15:00] never repurposing it, and I sit there and think, "Oh, man, I just wish we..."

You know, you gotta go out there and make it a, make it a campaign. And maybe the word campaign is, I don't know, old, and it was, it's from 10 years ago. But whatever you wanna call it, I think, um, if you invest money in research, if you invest money in the creation of any kind of asset, it should, I think, work for you in so many different ways.

And the fact that you also used it not only in marketing, but also to equip salespeople-  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Yeah ...  

Dan Beresh: some of the work that we do as well is in really just, yeah, we're creating this marketing asset, yeah, we're creating this campaign, but let's also make at least a, a battle card for the sales folks so that they can understand what they need to be doing in the room, right?

Like, why, why not? We're already halfway there.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Absolutely. I think it's all about, uh, you know, just not stopping at awareness, but complete alignment. Internal alignment, as well as the same message should speak to multiple personas So what is in it for the retail banking head? What's in it for the operations person?

What is for the [00:16:00] finance person? So we further, you know, created, uh, from the same asset, we created, uh, design thinking workshops. And in design thinking workshop, we pointed out this was the gap which we identified. These are diagnostic that we have offered. Let's work together and bring all the, uh, you know, functions, um, you know, people on the ground who will be the users and people who are conceptualizing, strategizing, and bring them all together and do a complete design thinking workshop and come up with the more grounds of solution.

And we conducted these workshops across large banks like State Bank of India, ICICI Bank, HDFC Bank, and which had a very strong, um, you know, I think, uh, uptake. And the customer really appreciated, helped us build a strong foundation and relationship, uh, and reputation.  

Dan Beresh: So you're doing these design thinking workshops with your prospective clients to help get them on the journey [00:17:00] before you sell them on, "Hey, you should really implement SAP."

Sanjay Chaudhary: Absolutely.  

Dan Beresh: It's such a journey, especially in enterprise, and you talked a little bit about personas, and I'd love to just talk about that for a couple of minutes 'cause it's so interesting to me. I-- There are obviously an infinite number of personas out there, especially for a global organization. You have not only people, but, uh, different geographies and cultures, so you have to think about that.

Um, how do you think about where the line is in terms of what is enough to be effective and yet also maintaining, you know, some sense of sanity in the number of personas and messages that you're gonna market with?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: If you look at, uh, you know, um, um, how, um, how the campaigns are designed or the, how the engagements are planned, there's a lot of, uh, groundwork that has to be done before that, and I call it insight to advisory model.

And if you have to, uh, you know, earn that [00:18:00] reputation of an advisor for your customers, then you have to go the complete nine yards. And what I mean by that, you have to st- uh, start with building deep insights. Deep insights on the organization, deep insights on the environment that they operate in in terms of their competition, their industry, and, uh, deep insights of the people who are, uh, responsible to buy the product, and also the influencers that we have, the users that they have.

Once you have done this deep research, then once you have understood their challenges and aspirations, in that context, you build perspectives. And building perspectives, uh, means, uh, putting together the art of possible. Uh, you know, uh, how a user's life would change on the shop floor. How a CEO [00:19:00] will be getting better visibility across his different KPIs How a plant manager's job would change after a particular solution is implemented.

So it's sort of a vision that you are showing them that eventually, w- from where you are, what are the possibilities? And then comes the role of creation of different, uh, assets for different personas. With this deep understanding, the underlining layer would remain the same, but you're just dialing into the specific insight that you have, uh, built for each of those personas.

And then I think, um, it's a matter of just, uh, you know, deciding what, uh, assets to be used depending on the, um, the way, uh, information is consumed by different personas, right? If... And you have to just dial, uh, into that, uh, [00:20:00] dial deep into the specific requirement. It's not so complicated, to be honest. Uh, you know, once you have done, the heavy lifting is building insights.

Then everything else fall into place. So if you, uh, get the insights right, then it's a simpler job.  

Dan Beresh: Totally agree, and yet I, I'm here s- sitting here thinking, I've been in so many rooms where we've been asked to create marketing collateral, and I ask, "Great. Happy to do it. Send me the insights. That's what we'll base all the messaging on."

And they say, "Well, what do you mean?" And then I say, "Well, do- you did the research, right? Do you have personas?" And they say, "Well, yeah. I mean, we have a buying committee." And then I say, "Well, who's on the buying committee?" "Well, I mean, CEO, the VP." And then I say, "Well, but anyone else?" And they say, "Well, I don't, I don't, we don't really know."

And so I was sitting there thinking, the, uh, so I, I love what you're saying because although, uh, I think in some ways it sounds self-evident, it's [00:21:00] not. And e- even in large multinational organizations, we're still seeing, I think, a lack of really, uh, pumping the brakes. I don't know if you agree with this or you've seen this at all in your career, but people's desire to just put assets out because that's what, you know, it, to some extent it, marketers are, are, are evaluated on.

"Hey, I launched this beautiful campaign, and all these people watched it, and let me show you all the vanity metrics." And when you go into the research that underpins it, there actually wasn't any because we just wanted to get to the tactics. So it's a matter of almost having that, that patience, if you'd agree with me, and, and, and just doing the right thing first And knowing that that's gonna get you, you know, that's, that's what's gonna get you the results, not the vanity metrics.

Sanjay Chaudhary: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sure. I'll give you an example to make it more real, right? So, um, once, uh, we were trying to get into a competition stronghold, and we were a periphery player, and this is again a banking example. And, uh, [00:22:00] the idea was, uh, you know, to get attention. We were not even getting a, you know, seat on the table or a, uh, or a meeting, right?

We needed something for a door opening. And, uh, the amount of research that we did, and we identified the inefficiencies in the current system as... And, uh, you know, came up with a upfront, um, possibility and created a challenger report, sometime call it a challenger report, that which is challenging the status quo, that we will be able to help you save, say, $200 million, right?

If you do run these specific programs. And to run these specific programs, um, there are multiple solutions available, including us And that report, it took almost one and a half month to put together that deep research report, but it generated results. [00:23:00] It was, and it was, it never got published. It was a- Yeah

document which was produced. It was sent to the CEO's table. That's the power of, you know, uh, insights. It's not about, you know, how many assets you are creating. It's purely what, what really creates value and what creates impact.  

Dan Beresh: Well, and we were talking a little bit about AI, and maybe this is a chance to start talking about that because that's another thing that just allows us to create so, so many assets.

And it's, I think what you're, what you're saying, which I think is so brilliant, is if you truly think of the marketing and sales functions as part of, you know, the same company, not siloed from each other, and the ultimate goal being to make that sale, then what you will do is take the time to do the insights because you know that the end goal is actually making the sale or actually getting the meeting, not just delivering, you know, vanity metrics.

And [00:24:00] with AI, it's so easy to chase that and, and to have that be, you know, such a shiny object. And there are, I think, you know, there are ways we can use AI in, in, in, in brilliant ways- Mm ... and especially around research. I think that it can do such a wonderful job of accelerating. Um, but it's not that silver bullet that's just gonna make your life perfect and beautiful and, and incredibly easy, right?

It's, it's... At, at least we like to say at Fide, we like to say it's a tool. It's a tool that can help you. It's a tool that can accelerate. It's not a complete 360, 180. You know, let's, let's, let's flip this around. What's your perspective on that?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: AI is now in- interestingly becoming more, uh, operational. It's no longer an, uh, experiment, experiment being conducted by, in small, uh, silos.

I think it's becoming increasingly mainstream now. And I recently came out of our marketing planning meeting, and at SAP we have recently introduced a tool [00:25:00] which has all the, uh, you know, uh, LLM models and which will help improve the efficiency. So the way I see, uh, AI is, is a very smart intern that you have hired.

Dan Beresh: I like that. It is, it's smart, but still an intern.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Yes, it's still intern. And, uh, you know, I think the, uh, the intern can do all the running around for you But the creative aspect, um, the thinking part cannot be outsourced. You know, I've been part of, uh, marketing for several years. Uh, I know the amount of effort it takes to build the right insights.

But with AI on your side and the smart intern on your side, which, uh, which is, uh, which can be scaled, you know, that whole job has become much more easier. But where to go and look for information What kind of information would [00:26:00] make sense? And bring, uh, you know, truthful as well as credible, not creating, uh, uh, you know, fictitious stuff is, uh, is your job, your job to, you know, create that filter.

So I think maybe, you know, um, all the things that we used to take, uh, you know, days to build can now be done in minutes with the efficiency that AI brings. So I b- I'm really look, uh, you know, really excited, and we have also already started using AI in multiple, uh, uh, you know, programs. Um, basic use cases is, uh, content, uh, right from social to digital content to, uh, events-related content.

That's one part of this. So efficiency is, uh, so much more improved. The other part is segmenting the [00:27:00] market, understanding the customer. So, um, I believe AI can help you, uh, you know, create smaller sub-subsegments, and you can market to each segment. You know, um, having a background of account-based marketing, and account-based marketing is, is, uh, the, uh, you know, taking each account as a market of one, uh, you know, which has a limitation of how much you can scale.

But with A- uh, you know, AI on your side, that, uh, scalability problem can be addressed as long as you understand the, um, the, uh, uh, insights based on which you are building these segments and sub-segments and, uh, how you have to message to each of those segments. So I'm really, uh, excited about the whole concept of AI, a smart intern, uh, being recruited by marketers.

Dan Beresh: Yeah, this, um, intern is just a brilliant analogy because the intern can and will [00:28:00] return information that's incorrect, and you have to know when it's not right.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Correct.  

Dan Beresh: The intern will go and look for the wrong source, bring you back the wrong thing, and you have to say, "No, go back and do it again." And most importantly, I think an intern in a good company succeeds and learns and does well.

An intern in a lesser company could learn how to do things the wrong way, could come out of the internship and not have produced good work, although they think it's great because they just don't know any better. And so y- it's, uh, such a great point that you make is that you as the leader, as the operator of the LLM, you have to steer the ship.

You have to be the person to say, "Yes, this is right. No, this isn't And it accelerates. Um, and, and I, you know, the hope, I guess, is that we're accelerating it in the right direction, and we're accelerating it- Correct ... with the knowledge that we have. Um, and I think it's, uh, it's important for marketing teams to, to, to put people in the right positions to be able to, to direct those, uh, [00:29:00] those, those LLMs, because otherwise, uh, yeah, you, you can, I think, go down a path that leads to very incorrect results  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Yeah, I think marketing has always been seen as, um, a creative function, right?

It was always about how, how you can present a perspective in a different way, um, how you can, uh, come up with the, uh, right positioning and messaging, and be creative in terms of, uh, communicating that messaging. Um, then over the period we have had, uh, you know, with the digital marketing, uh, opening up in terms of using data, the intent data, a lot of other data points to make sure that the message is getting delivered to the right person.

I believe, uh, you know, a lot of the data part could be outsourced to AI, and a lot of the number churning can, can easily be outsourced to AI. But the creative part, uh, I believe will continue to with- be with human. [00:30:00] And this human machine combination can really create huge impact. You know, the dependency on, on, uh, leveraging larger team for data churning may well reduce.

It could be done at a faster pace. You can personalize messages at a faster pace. But being creative and, um, you know, having that domain understanding, having that knowledge, uh, of, of what, uh, clicks the, uh, the, you know, customer is important. I think the fundamentals are not changing. The efficiency will improve.

The, some of the part which are more mundane part will get, uh, you know, outsourced. But increasingly, I would say, I think because everyone would be using the same set of tools, so at some point of time everything will start looking the same.  

Dan Beresh: Well, it already has, I think. Yeah. You know, my LinkedIn is full of stuff, and it's not

It, it's, it's, yeah, it's an int- it's an intern, but actually everyone hired the same intern. So- [00:31:00] And that intern is delivering the same results to every single... And well, I mean, we've helped certain clients who come to us and say, "We're using AI and it's amazing, and that's what we should advertise." And I'm sitting there in the meeting saying, "You know that every single one of your competitors is also using the same AI.

That's not a differentiator." But I think what is a differentiator is how you can use it, right? Absolutely. And using it in a smarter way and, and prompting it in a way or cr-

building on it, that's, I think, the future, and that is what I get really excited about. Yeah. 'Cause I think that our creative, um, as an agency can become 10X in, in the same amount of time. You know, we could produce things that look like a Super Bowl commercial, uh, that, that otherwise would have cost millions, but everyone else can too.

So it's really what's the idea? And I think it comes back to what's the insight, what's the research?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Absolutely. Insight, research, and the [00:32:00] creativity. The right side- Yeah ... of the brain is Some are much important as we s- you know, started the whole marketing thing about it is increasingly becoming so important, and you need more thinkers, uh, more, uh, creators, uh, creative people, and futurists.

Dan Beresh: Mm-hmm.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: You know, those kind of, uh, people who can actually, uh, who can actually imagine better than the machines.  

Dan Beresh: Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, you know, one thing I was just thinking about is as we talk about different peoples and different companies' use of AI and things like that, I mean, you've been at a number of different companies, right?

You worked at Oracle, now you're at SAP. Um, you've been to startups like Lentera. I, I'm curious, you know, what stays the same for you? What changes between the organizations that, that you've had the opportunity to be at?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Well, I think, um, um, I have worked with large companies, um, like, uh, Amex and Oracle, and after spending, [00:33:00] like, many years with the large organization, when I first moved to a startup, a fintech startup, Lentera, there's a huge learning curve happened.

Hmm. You know? I think, um, the biggest difference for me was, um, when you work for a large, uh, organization, uh, big tech companies- unlike Oracle and SAPs, you know, there are many things that you are taken care of, and your primary focus is on demand generation and execution at scale. Whereas when you work for a, um, a small startup, your responsibility is not only restricted to demand generation.

Your budget get, uh, you know, used in building the brand, creating the product literature, and of course, there is an ROI that everyone expect, whether it's a big, uh, tech company or a startup. The underlining thing is [00:34:00] everyone wants an outcome. They want an ROI. So that was the fund- fundamental difference which I saw.

You know, you have to, uh, be very mindful in terms of how just pure demand generation doesn't help. You have to build, you know, invest into other aspects also. And the other difference I would say is, um, you know, when you, uh, move from a large organization, you take many things for granted. The tools that you have access to because those tools are being negotiated at scale in somewhere in HQ.

Uh, in a startup or, uh, in the Indian setup, you are the HQ and you may not have that kind of a scale. You have to be very deliberate in terms of what you use and everyone has to earn its space. So, so I think it's some tools like, you know, creating the tools I used to use in large organization, um, which I never thought that because there [00:35:00] is, uh, someone else who has already paid for the base price, I'm getting a discounted price.

Yeah. You start negotiating as the HQ, that completely changes, right? And these are the some of the things which I've noticed. But I believe, um- Um, what is consistent is, um, you know, all organizations want the same amount of rigor return-- on return on investment, you know. Then, uh, the, while, uh, you know, there is, um, more sensitivity to not do anything wrong, get better alignment, and making sure everything is, um, as per the process in large organization, which is good, uh, for their environment.

It's very different in, uh, s- startups where, uh, speed, agility, and, uh, you know, the decision-making is much more faster. Nothing is wrong, the environments are different. But yeah, I think the, the [00:36:00] frugal mindset that you learn when you join, um, a smaller setup, you know, you have... That's a huge learning, um, of...

And then you, you know, build your team from grounds up, right? There is no, um, um, when I joined Lentra, there was no team, so I had to hire people. Then you look at, because you have limited, uh, you know, uh, headcounts, h-how you can make use of each of, uh, the resources and how they have to, have to show a career path to them.

So that's the, you know, there's a lot of thinking which goes, goes into it. Um- And, uh, you know, and also, um, um, that was the first time I joined a pure cloud native company. And, uh, the approach is very, very different in cloud native company. They are born in the cloud company. So that was another interesting learning curve which happened for me.

So I will say I think, uh, you know, it's an amazing experience I have of seeing both the world. [00:37:00]  

Dan Beresh: They are two different worlds in a lot of ways, I think. And g- looking back to my days when I worked for Deloitte, and it's exactly what you said. We had all the software, all the tools, the, uh, n- contracts were negotiated.

We had volume discounts. It was, like, great, you know. And then going to work for, um... I mean, I went to work for a small tech company after that, and I, you know, it was 300 people. Uh, so just the scale was just so, so different, and everything was, was different. And a lot of the literature I read as a founder now is, uh, talking, when you talk about staff, people say, I'm curious about your thoughts here.

There are certain types of people who really thrive in an enterprise organization and who like the idea that you have access to the tools, that you have the scale, that you have the support. And then there are other people who are gonna thrive in a situation where you don't have the support, where you have to build it on your own, where you have to do everything yourself.

And those people don't always necessarily [00:38:00] mesh. And I think a- my advice would be that if you're thinking about your own career, you're listening to this podcast, it's who, which, which are you, you know, in terms of your, your personality? Are, are you the type of person that is gonna like that larger structure or is, is gonna want to be able to build something from scratch, as, as risky as that is, with a smaller organization?

Sanjay, what do you think? What do you... W- when you, you're sitting in SAP, obviously you've been in a number of organizations, would you ever go back to a small organization, or do, are you one who prefers the, uh, you know, the, the, the more built, bigger, bigger spots?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: You know, I think, uh- The world around is changing so much, and if you're not adaptable, if you're not changing with times, you will become redundant, right?

Mm. So I think, um, if if you have to survive in the current [00:39:00] environment and, uh, you know, never say never, right? So, um, things do keep changing, you know, it's all, um... In fact, after spending many years with large, big tech companies, when I moved to a startup, it, a huge learning curve which happened. It helped me adapt, uh, adapt and adopt, uh, the new ways of working.

So it was a huge, it was a valuable experience that I, uh, gained in the process, right? And I think, um, uh, similarly when I joined, uh, Intellect Design, which is a half a billion dollar company and which has presence in 50 countries, uh, the kind of exposure that I got, uh, of working beyond JPac, I, uh, handled European market as well as the, uh, Middle East market.

Huge learning that happened. And, uh, you know, when you're looking at global demand generation, and our simple goal was we had, uh, you know, [00:40:00] seven geographies, which were these 50 countries were split into seven geographies, uh, six products, and my only aim was generate four leads per, uh, geography per product.

So-  

Dan Beresh: Hmm ...  

Sanjay Chaudhary: net/net, 168, uh, leads per month. And then work backward in terms of how you have to equip each market with the right set of assets. How do you have to con-conduct the right set of programs and campaigns to achieve that outcome? So that kind of exposure or, uh, you know, I would have got. And all that learning which happened in the process of understanding the segment, the amount of, uh, you know, deep, uh, uh, research that we used to do for each of those markets has helped me, uh, bring that knowledge to, uh, my current working environment.

I now understand the market segmentation much [00:41:00] better, their GTMs much better than I, I used to understand better, uh, used to understand earlier.  

Dan Beresh: It's a great way to put it So, uh, yeah, in a way, what I, I'm hearing you say is, uh, and maybe it's not big or small organization. Maybe it's big organizations teach you one thing, which is extremely valuable, and small organizations teach you another thing, which is also extremely valuable.

And so you have the benefit of bringing to SAP both the experience of large and small, both the ability to use all the tools and work within a large structure, but also know how to do it from the ground up at small companies where there wasn't a structure in place already. So you benefit- Mm-hmm ... from that, and perhaps that's, perhaps that's what everyone should really aim to do, right?

Is at least get that experience so you can bring it into whatever role you're in.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: I totally agree. In fact, if you're on conversations only about marketing and your conversation is only about [00:42:00] activities, you will never earn the seat on the table I believe the conversation has to be about the GTMs, about- Mm-hmm

uh, how do you build credibility? How do you build trust with the customers? And, uh, when you start by giving more, um, and by giving more, I mean what is that your, uh, customer is asking for? What is that your sales team is asking for? And deliver that. Uh, help them achieve their goals. In the process, you will achieve yours.

I believe pipeline and those, uh, goals are byproducts. Um, my fundamental view, believe is, uh, you have to, uh, have to be on the same side of the table and have achieve the larger ecosystem achieve its goals, and, uh, in the process achieve yours.  

Dan Beresh: It, it's like i-i-in a business serving another business, you would say, [00:43:00] "Well, we're selling SAP to you because we're going to help you be successful in your career, dear client," right?

And in the same way, as a marketer, I'm helping you, the salesperson, to be successful, and by virtue of that, I'm gonna be... Like, it just is a virtuous cycle. And I think the more we are individualistic and we just think about our own selfish, you know, "I'm gonna need to get promoted next quarter, so I gotta do this and this and this," and I'm tunnel vision and I'm only thinking about myself, it actually hurts you and everyone around you.

And, uh, frankly, uh, I don't think that's the way to-- I don't think that's the way to be personally successful, you know? It's how much can I help other people.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Correct. Correct. Uh, absolutely. I think you have to be a businessperson first to be a better marketer. And thankfully, with the sales program experience, where I actually orchestrated a lot of GTM programs, uh, that helped me understand business much deeper.

Dan Beresh: You have the experience in sales, you have the experience in [00:44:00] marketing, and really just bringing it all together seems to be the theme that we've been talking about throughout the podcast. So as we wrap up, is there anything else you would leave our audience with, that you would tell an enterprise marketer that's looking forward to what's coming in 2026?

Sanjay Chaudhary: I gotta say, uh, the world around us is changing, but fundamentals of marketing would continue to remain the same. We are here to solve problems, right? And problems, uh, that our customers are facing, our stakeholders are facing. How you can spend more time to understand, uh, the industries, buyer psychology, and how revenue really happens will create, really create you as a differentiated marketer.

And marketing is no longer about just campaigns. It's about building credibility, and credibility takes time, curiosity, and courage. So I will strongly encourage the [00:45:00] fellow marketers to focus on building the credibility, building the reputation, and the relationship which will bring revenue on its own.

Dan Beresh: That's brilliant. Thank you so mu- so much. I, I, I, uh, resonates so much, and I think so much is changing, and yet so much is also staying the same. And there's a really bright and exciting future out there for everyone, but also it doesn't have to be that scary, right? The fundamentals are not, are not changing.

So Sanjay, thank you so much for coming on the Fide Podcast. I so appreciate it. Uh, and is there anywhere people can connect with you if they want?  

Sanjay Chaudhary: I'm happy to, uh, get connected on LinkedIn. I'll-- I'm very responsive on LinkedIn, and I'm, as I can say, I'm a learner, uh, for life, and look forward to connect with more people.

Um, um, you know, you can reach out to me on, uh, LinkedIn.  

Dan Beresh: Fantastic. Sanjay, thank you so much for coming on. This has been the Fide Podcast, uh, and [00:46:00] we will catch you all next time. Thanks again.  

Sanjay Chaudhary: Thank you very much, Daniel.

‍